chatting with Columbine

Back when we lived in the same city, or at least in driving distance of one another, a friend and I had great conversations about movies, and musicals, and related weird stuff. From Victor/Victoria to Billy Wilder to the suffragette song in Mary Poppins and usually Ethel Merman or Tim Curry somehow got mentioned along the way.
That friend is now known online as Columbine, and we live clear across the country from one another. But the other day at lunchtime, we managed to find each other on IM. I’d like to share this conversation with y’all. I cleaned it up a little because I often find it very difficult to read people’s IM transcripts. I added some capitalization and punctuation, and I changed our IM usernames to the names we use on our own Web sites. I also added the occasional clarifying phrase in brackets. (I was tempted to assume everyone knew the plays of Kaufman and Hart and the entire filmography of John Barrymore, but I decided to add explanation where I thought it would help.)

Columbine: I am trying to find something that doesn’t exist.
Jette: And what would that be?
Columbine: I’m trying to find a page that speculates on who the various celebrity characters in The Man Who Came To Dinner [1939 play by Kaufman and Hart] are supposed to be. OK, Alexander Woolcott is clear, and Banjo is Harpo Marx. Is Beverly Carlton supposed to be Noel Coward? And who is Lorraine Sheldon supposed to be?
Jette: hm.
Columbine: OK, I’ve found at least one page that says Beverly Carlton is supposed to be Noel Coward.
Columbine: When the Baton Rouge Little Theatre did it, they played him as Liberace, basically.
Columbine: less extreme, but basically
Jette: I saw a version on TV once with Nathan Lane.
Jette: I haven’t read the play in years, though.
Jette: wow, there was a 1972 TV version with Orson Welles
Jette: and, get this, Marty Feldman as Banjo.
Columbine: That’s not a bad casting job actually.
Jette: Yeah, although apparently they attempted to make it more contemporary.
Columbine: I’m more likely to see Feldman as Banjo than the way they cast him in the original movie.
Jette: Joan Collins as Lorraine Sheldon
Columbine: That’s also not bad, she’s a very Joan Collins style part.
Jette: Sounds like an interesting curiosity, although of course there’s no way to see it.
Columbine: Yeah, the “contemporary” thing seems to be haunting it.
Columbine: “The play is very much a comedy of its day, with references to contemporary figures in show business, politics, and society furiously spat out in all directions like bullets from a Tommy gun. Unfortunately for modern audiences, for every name that might still be recognized, there are two that will elicit blank looks; most of the play’s subjects have faded into obscurity.”
Columbine: pft
Columbine: We worry too much about these things. It’s still funny. The rest of you can look it up when you get home.
Jette: I’m reading an IMDb news item that says Danny DeVito wanted to remake it in 2001.
Columbine: however, the next paragraph of that same review points out something interesting:
Columbine: “Still, while many of the jokes in The Man Who Came to Dinner may not resonate today, the comedic situation still does. A supercilious intellectual butting heads with a crew of supposedly middlebrow ‘ordinary’ folk? It’s Frasier.”
Columbine: and so it is.
Jette: hee. good point!
Jette: Apparently John Barrymore was originally cast in the film.
Columbine: He was too drunk to do it.
Jette: yep.
Columbine: So they went with the guy they should have cast anyway, who was already perfecting it on stage.
Jette: I’m not sure Barrymore would have been quite right.
Columbine: I’m sure he would have been quite wrong. Barrymore was too aware of his hamminess, and Whiteside has to be blissfully un-self-aware
Jette: hm
Jette: anyway, after Midnight he pretty much fell apart. The Invisible Woman is just sad.
Columbine: OK, everyone seems to think Beverly Carlton is Noel Coward, but I still can’t find any speculation on Lorraine Sheldon.
Jette: I don’t remember much about Lorraine anyway.
Jette: ah hah.
Jette: I just found a link comparing her to Gertrude Lawrence.
Columbine: ah hah?
Columbine: what is a Gertrude Lawrence?
Jette: British stage actress in the Thirties
Jette: Someone else mentions Tallulah [Bankhead].
Columbine: I was thinking Tallulah. Joan Crawford has also been invoked.
Jette: Yeah, type “lorraine sheldon gertrude lawrence” into Google and you’ll see what I mean.
Jette: oh, that’s right, the movie Star! was based on her [Lawrence].
Columbine: huh. I have never heard of this woman, but there sure seems to be consensus on this.
Jette: I can’t believe you’ve never heard of Gertrude Lawrence. She was in many London and Broadway musicals.
Columbine: not ringing any bells, no. If she was primarily a stage person, that’s probably why.
Jette: yes, she was in maybe a half-dozen films.
Columbine: I’m more up on movie people from that era than stage people.
Columbine: Have you ever seen the canonical film version of Man Who Came To Dinner, by the by?
Jette: no, I haven’t
Jette: well, not the whole thing. just bits
Jette: I tried watching it at Christmas and it bored my mom.
Columbine: It’s a reasonably faithful adaptation, although I agree that it is a crime to rob the script of Whiteside’s opening line.
Jette: which is?
Columbine: heh. he’s in a back room offstage, right, being nursed – you can hear him shouting but you haven’t seen him.
Columbine: Everyone is expecting him to be wheeled out. The room is full of people, smiling and beaming
Columbine: and they wheel him out and he does a long slow look at all the faces
Columbine: and says, “I may vomit.”
Jette: oh. yes. How could I forget?
Jette: For one thing, I’m not sure you could say “vomit” on the screen in 1942.
Columbine: they also expanded Bette Davis’ part in the film a bit.
Columbine: Casting’s not bad. When I first saw it I was stunned that Bette Davis was playing the GOOD girl.
Columbine: but she does just fine.
Jette: Apparently she wanted the role.
Columbine: Jimmy Durante as Banjo is a little bizarre if you know it’s supposed to be Harpo Marx, but his verbal patter is good for the part.
Columbine: Billie Burke is a little bit wasted
Columbine: which is a shame.
Columbine: She’s doing her usual ditz.
Jette: She was nearly always wasted.
Columbine: Was she really?
Columbine: huh. I always thought she came by that bubbleheadedness naturally.
Columbine: that’s a shame
Jette: I mean, she never seemed to have that one breakaway role. Everyone remembers her as Glinda [Glinda the Good Witch in The Wizard of Oz].
Columbine: Oh, I thought you meant she drank!
Columbine: hee
Jette: Oh, not wasted in the drunk sense. Wasted in the “not quite used as she should have been” sense.
Columbine: ah. yeah, I agree.
Jette: She did have that tone of voice that made you wonder if she’d been in the sherry.
Columbine: yup. That’s what I like about her. “I’m afraid I’m a little muddled!”
Jette: I would go look her up on IMDb, but I can’t open a browser right now.
Columbine: I have not, I confirm, seen any films with Gertrude Lawrence.
Columbine: I got IMDb right here.
Columbine: my word, the filmography is huge
Jette: really? wow
Columbine: She was born in 1885!!!
Jette: She must have played a lot of ditzy wives.
Jette: damn
Columbine: and her earliest credit is 1916
Jette: So she was pushing 50 in Dinner at Eight. I would not have guessed.
Jette: or hell, The Wizard of Oz. damn.
Columbine: OK, the earliest thing here I recognize (though I haven’t seen it) is A Bill of Divorcement
Columbine: 1932. Dinner at Eight, ’33
Jette: I haven’t seen it … I’d like to see it as a curiosity (John B. plays Kate’s dad) but I suspect it’s dull [referring to A Bill of Divorcement with John Barrymore and Katharine Hepburn]
Jette: I like Dinner at Eight, though.
Columbine: Many, many, many of these parts are Mrs. Ditz.
Jette: didn’t Selznick want her as Aunt Pittypat at one point?
Columbine: I mean, you read these part names. Mrs. Frazier. Mrs. Crane. Mrs. Norwood. Mrs. Radcliffe.
Jette: heh.
Columbine: I think so maybe
Columbine: Oh, that’s right, she’s in Topper.
Jette: yeah, Topper is the one I remember her best in (well, besides Oz)
Columbine: I haven’t actually SEEN Topper. Don’t tell.
Jette: It’s not as good as I wanted it to be, but it wasn’t bad.
Columbine: Her last real role was in 1960.
Columbine: 1960!
Columbine: And she didn’t die until 1970. A long life spent playing ditzes.
Jette: wow.
Columbine: She was making a living.
Jette: Actors and actresses like that always amaze me.
Columbine: The Depression had wiped out Ziegfield and he died not long after.
Jette: How does Ziegfield figure into this?
Columbine: They were married.
Jette: oh, ok
Columbine: EVeryone knows this.
Jette: Well, I didn’t know that. But I did know who Gertrude Lawrence was.
Columbine: She didn’t need to work as long as she was married to him.
Columbine: He had all kinds of stock money.
Jette: I should have known that, though.
Columbine: In fact it says here that after 1921 she had considered herself retired.
Columbine: So she was 54 when she played Glinda. Wow.
Jette: Unbelievable.
Columbine: The other interesting thing, which I did not know, is that Ziegfield was born in 1913.
Jette: Are you planning to write something about The Man Who Came to Dinner?
Columbine: so, um, she was 28 years older than he was
Jette: That can’t be right … if he lost all his money in the Depression?
Columbine: You’re right. No wonder that didn’t make sense!
Columbine: Good, i was worried. thirty years is a big gap.
Columbine: try 1869
Jette: yeah. unlike 10 years, which is ok
Columbine: hee
Jette: That makes more sense.
Columbine: One of the pages had it wrong.
Jette: The Follies might have been born in 1913.
Columbine: oh, no, i get it. 1913 is their marriage.
Jette: ah
Columbine: His dates on Billie Burke’s page start with the marriage, not his birth.
Jette: got it
Columbine: I don’t know what I did before IMDb.
Jette: Went to the library? Looked it up in books?
Columbine: eh, books. Books are so passe.
Columbine: And no, I’m not planning on writing anything about TMWCTD.
Columbine: I was singing “What Am I To Do?” on the way back to lunch for no apparent reason.
Jette: oh, too bad
Jette: I’m sure I’d enjoy hearing you riff on that.
Jette: (well, I just did)
Columbine: hee. I have very little to actually say about the show. I wouldn’t mind seeing a production of it again. I think I am overdue.
Columbine: The film is, um, very blandly directed.
Columbine: competently but uninterestingly
Columbine: You know, like Chris Columbus doing the Harry Potter films.
Jette: urrrgh
Columbine: hee
Jette: You mean all the women have been reduced to prissy shrews?
Columbine: No, and i never especially noticed that about those two films.
Columbine: I mean that the camera really doesn’t do anything. very straightforward. “This happens. This happens. This happens. This happens. This happens. Then this happens.”
Jette: yeah, I know what you mean.
Columbine: You think those movies make the women out to be prissy shrews?
Jette: I didn’t like Hermione much in the first two films. Much better in the third one. Some of that is the book but I think they could have leveraged off later books to fill out her character a bit.
Columbine: I might note that Hermione doesn’t really become less of a pain in the ass until the third book.
Columbine: oh, you’re already there.
Columbine: ok
Jette: Now, I can only hope the actress can keep her character from getting insufferable again.
Columbine: heh
Columbine: She’s always supposed to be a LITTLE insufferable.
Jette: because she’s not going to get much help from the books or from the directors.
Columbine: right.
Jette: A bit, but we should like her anyway.
Columbine: also true
Jette: I keep hearing the oddest rumors about the directors for #5.
Columbine: Incidentally, the disks for Azkaban contain one deleted scene which absolutely fascinated me.
Jette: really?
Columbine: It’s at night in the Gryffindor dorms after someone has managed to get past the painting (Neville has let slip the password)
Columbine: and everyone is in pajamas, nightgowns, etc. trying to figure out what happened.
Columbine: The reason the scene fascinates me is because it contains Maggie Smith basically out of makeup in her nightclothes with her hair down.
Jette: I don’t think they’ve shown that before, have they?
Columbine: no.
Columbine: never.
Jette: Hm.
Columbine: I might also add that Maggie with hair down is pretty striking for a lady pushing seventy.
Jette: Really? That’s good to hear.
Columbine: Oh, I’ve always thought so. I wish I could find pictures of the way she looked when she was younger. She has good bones, as they say.
Jette: I can’t remember seeing any films she was in when younger.
Columbine: Anyway, it’s worth seeing this brief scene if you ever decide to rent the DVDs.
Jette: ok
Jette: [Beau] can’t stand the whole franchise … I like seeing them in theaters but I’m not sure I’d feel the need to rent them.
Columbine: heh
Columbine: We just assume we will buy them.
Jette: The third one is the only one I would think of renting or buying.
Columbine: Actually, come to think on it, I think I like her appearance better as she ages. I forgot, she was Miss High Society Cheekbone when younger.
Columbine: Let’s see, her youngest part listed was at age 22. 1956.
Columbine: Christ, she was in the Olivier Othello.
Jette: I haven’t seen that.
Columbine: I haven’t either, but she was Desdemona.
Jette: wow
Columbine: Ah, okay, The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie. Which I also haven’t seen.
Columbine: that was ’69
Jette: That’s the first one I remember.
Columbine: yeah, me too
Jette: Haven’t seen it though.
Columbine: Then the Agatha Christie things which were the first place I saw her.
Columbine: Including Murder By Death, heh
Columbine: which she actually did BEFORE Death on the Nile.
Jette: I think Murder by Death may be the oldest movie I’ve seen her in, although again I can’t check right now so I’m not certain
Jette: unless she was in that Peter Brook Midsummer Night’s Dream thingy from the 60s [checking later, I see the 1968 movie was actually directed by Peter Hall]
Columbine: nope, she was in a lot of Shakespeare but not that one.
Jette: ok. Helen Mirren and Judi Dench were in that one, I think. [and Diana Rigg! hee]
Columbine: I’ve always wanted to see that for sheer novelty value, but i think it is unavailable.
Jette: I saw a videotape of it when I was in grad school, I think we got it from Vulcan.
Columbine: Now here’s your trivia, since you can’t cheat and look it up right now: Who’s older, Dench or Smith?
Jette: Smith.
Columbine: bwahaha
Columbine: Dench
Jette: damn.
Columbine: but!
Jette: By how much?
Columbine: It is very nearly a trick question.
Columbine: Judi Dench: 9 December 1934
Columbine: Maggie Smith: 28 December 1934
Jette: heh. well, Dench is shorter, so it’s harder to tell. Those damn short chicks.
Columbine: They’re both holding up pretty well for 71, don’t you think?
Jette: no kidding.
Jette: I hope I’m that active at 71
Jette: btw, speaking of Helen Mirren, Michael Gambon is very amusing in The Life Aquatic.
Columbine: Entertainment Weekly this week has an article about Eastwood, where he tells about someone coming up to him at a party or something and saying how encouraging it is to other directors that he is apparently in the prime of his career while in his seventies.
Columbine: the speaker: Spielberg.
Jette: I don’t want to contemplate the idea of Spielberg still making movies in his 1970s.
Jette: On the other hand, maybe he’ll be better then.
Columbine: why not? He has his moments.
Columbine: On the whole I am not prepared to dismiss Spielberg.
Columbine: He makes good films when he suppresses his urge to treacle.
Jette: He’s got that whole PT Barnum thing going.
Jette: even when he makes “little” movies you can see money oozing from every corner, like Catch Me If You Can.
Columbine: which my wife thought was great, by the by
Columbine: well, reasonably great.
Jette: I liked it except that it took too long to end.
Columbine: I haven’t seen some of the movies he’s done recently that have been hailed because he’s been working with that short, monomanical Scientologist
Columbine: and I do not see his films.
Jette: heh.
Columbine: By the by, Hollywood has run out of ideas.
Jette: I tend to avoid his films too, but that’s because they just look lame.
Jette: why?
Columbine: I thought of sending you EW‘s upcoming films preview because it would just make you roll your eyes.
Columbine: An industry that has decided it needs to remake Fun With Dick and Jane is officially bankrupt.
Jette: My eyes don’t need the exercise.
Jette: whaaaat?
Jette: why?
Columbine: I kid you not. [True. Releasing in Summer 2005. IMDb listing here.]
Columbine: Also a remake of War of the Worlds with Cruise as a single dad and Dakota Fanning as his kid.
Jette: Yes, I knew about Worlds. All the film geek sites I read get all excited whenever a trailer appears for it and so on.
Columbine: and a take on Bewitched – but that one might actually be interesting.
Jette: I know about that. The Ephron sisters and Nicole Kidman.
Columbine: They knew they couldn’t just do a straight take on the series, so they’re making it a meta story
Columbine: there’s a frame story – they are, in the present day, making a period movie of Bewitched.
Jette: Meanwhile, if a Terry Gilliam film does not release this year I will explode.
Columbine: and Will Ferrell is cast as Darrin, but what he doesn’t realize is that the woman who has been cast as Samantha is actually a witch for real.
Jette: *sigh*
Columbine: I might actually see that if the reviews are good, although I will have to say a rosary at my Elizabeth Montgomery shrine in penance if I do.
Columbine: On the good side, it’s a nice idea and it might be cute. On the bad side, Will Ferrell.
Jette: At least he’s not being Ignatius.
Columbine: indeed
Jette: I should log this IM conversation and post it.
Columbine: hee
Jette: We have run the gamut from Gertrude Lawrence to Will Ferrell.
Columbine: It’s because we never get to sit and dish films anymore.
Jette: Or from Kaufman and Hart to Cruise and Spielberg.
Jette: yeah
Columbine: and because neither one of us wants to work.
Jette: heh. no comment.
[Disclaimer: We did have this conversation at lunchtime, when I was on a break at work. Obviously I would never participate in such an extended IM chat while focusing on the laborious task of software documentation.]
[Further aside for Columbine to ponder: There is current no wikipedia entry for The Man Who Came to Dinner. See? Perhaps we should create one?